In 1968, protests broke out all over the world in opposition to U.S.
involvement in Vietnam. In 1971, Vietnam Veterans Against the War held
a Winter Soldier conference, detailing the atrocities of the war by
those who experienced it. As documentation of the event, the film Winter Soldier is a protest in its own right. P.S.1 Director Alanna Heiss spoke with Bob Fiore, one of the 18 filmmakers
who worked on the project, about its production and its current significance as an anti-war protest.
Alanna Heiss: What was your role in the creation of Winter Soldier?
Bob Fiore: The filming of Winter Soldier was in 1971
at the height of anti-war protest. I was a part of an organization
called Filmmakers Against the War with 17 filmmakers who wanted to
attempt a meaningful protest. We got together to film the Winter
Soldier proceedings, because we thought the media would ignore them.
Which they did.
AH: What was the motivation to collaborate
with other filmmakers and to use film as a form of protest?
BF: We were all filmmakers so it was the obvious thing to do.
Veterans that we were working
with decided to organize this conference to coordinate information
about the war because it was unclear what was going on, since things
were not reported in the press. The conference was in Detroit and we
had very little money so we slept on the floor of a church basement.
Everyone’s hard work was volunteered and we got some film stock donated.
AH: How did the film circulate, and what communities supported it?
BF: We got a lot of support from the art world. Robert
Rauschenberg was very helpful in trying to raise money. He arranged for
us to show a demonstration reel at Senator Jacob Javits' apartment. We
also had screenings in art galleries--they became little theaters.. When
you made a film, aside from theaters, there wasn't any place to show
it.
I did some filming with Richard Serra and Robert Smithson--I had made Spiral Jetty
with Smithson in 1970--who were both interested in protesting the war.
Smithson had just come back from Kent State where he did his piece, Partially Buried Woodshed.
Then the shooting at Kent State occurred and that politicized
everything
we did.
At that time I lived on 13th Street and I used to cook dinner for
friends. Smithson and Serra would come and look at screenings of Winter Soldier.
Their influence contributed to the unrelenting
quality of the film. There was also an organization
of artists, Artists for Peace, led by Carl Andre. I don't know if they
did anything except meet at Max's and drink, but they were hunting for
ways to protest in a meaningful way.
AH: When Vietnam Veterans Against the War formed, it was the
first time that veterans joined activists and students to address the
Vietnam War. What was the impact of this first-hand voice?
BF: It was the first time I had seen veterans
speaking from their own experiences. In the case of Scott Camil, who is
one of the Winter Soldier participants, speaking helped him understand
what in fact had happened. I think this understanding grew as more and
more people who had been in Vietnam grasped the situation. It became
clear what our actual policies were, as opposed to what the government
said we were doing.
I had never met a veteran until we began filming and they were deeply
disturbed but were trying to understand what had happened to them. As
soon as you met them, you knew it was something radical. The same is
true in Iraq: people coming back are disturbed.
AH: How was the film initially received?
BF: At the time, the film wasn't shown in the U.S. at all
except at the Whitney Museum and at Cinema 1 on the East Side, and we
were not able to get it on TV. It was just too strong. But the
Europeans were more receptive.
We showed it at Cannes and at the Berlin Film Festival and there was a
large distribution in England, France, and Italy. Back then there was
no VHS or DVD, so there wasn't any way to show the film other than in
theaters, and eventually
it languished.
AH: What kinds of reactions did viewers have to the film?
BF: The film is a very powerful experience and it can be
shocking. One of the first times we showed it was in 1972 at the Berlin
Film Festival. When the film started, we were standing outside.
About five minutes later a woman came running out and puked in the
lobby. In Berlin there was a lot of sympathy for the Vietnamese and
antipathy for Americans. The Europeans didn't support the war at all.
AH: With the most recent Winter Soldier conference, does the
condemnation of the war by veterans still hold the same weight? How
does the echo of the previous Winter Soldier inform our perspective on
Iraq?
BF: The relaunch of Winter Soldier was at Lincoln Center in
2005. After a screening, some of the veterans from the film invited
Iraq War veterans up on the stage. I think in the same way that Winter
Soldier was a discovery of what was going on--people pooling their
experience
to get a broader idea of what was happening--the Iraq War veterans began to realize
that their experiences were part of a larger context. That allowed them
to find a voice for themselves.
One of the reasons for privatizing the army and doing away with the
draft was because so many drafted people experienced what war was like
and wouldn't keep quiet about it. I don’t think it worked. It made for
docile soldiers for a while in Iraq, because they were so-called
professional
soldiers. But war is war, it's horrible no matter when and where.
With the filming of the recent Iraqi Winter Soldier conference, the
situation is different. Now everything can be done on the Internet.
When we first made Winter Soldier,
there was no alternative to network news and newspapers.
In terms of making information available, it's really different than it
was then. Whether people understand or not is a different question.
Winter Soldier is an attempt to describe what kind of war our
country fights. Unfortunately the war in Iraq is very similar in the
amount of destruction and havoc we’ve managed to visit on innocent
people. Sometimes I speak after the film and almost inevitably people
will ask, "Why hasn't everyone seen this?" That response points to the
fact that this information exists, but is not available. That is why
the film is still relevant.
AH: With our current war in Iraq, is there renewed interest in the film?
BF: Around 1991, I showed the film in a class my daughter was
taking at Sarah Lawrence on the history of Vietnam. The students saw it
as an historical document because there was no war going on. The film
didn’t have any immediate
relevance. Instead, they mostly asked why the Vietnam War was such a
passionate subject with their parents.
With the Iraq war here has been an enthusiastic
and renewed interest in the film. Dennis Doros and Amy Heller of
Milestone Films have put the film in theaters, on television, and have
made it available on DVD. It's available on Netflix. Before, it was an
effort to keep the film alive, but now it is thriving.
August 14, 2008 02:50 PM
Singer, songwriter, liberal activist and now John McCain scourge Jackson Browne filed a lawsuit today against the presumptive Republican nominee for failing to obtain a license to use one of his songs in a television commercial.
The song, "Running on Empty," has been used by McCain in his presidential bid -- apparently against Browne's approval. The music icon also claims the Senator is falsely suggesting has endorsed his candidacy.
If the whole episode strikes a nostalgic tone, it's because famous musical artists and Republican presidential candidates have butted heads in the past. Bruce Springsteen publicly complained when Ronald Reagan used "Born in the U.S.A" during his campaign in 1984.
The commercial Browne is upset by is a recent spot on energy policy that rips Barack Obama for suggesting that the country conserve gas through proper tire inflation.
"We are confident that Jackson Browne will prevail in this lawsuit. Not only have Senator McCain and his agents plainly infringed Mr. Browne's copyright in Running On Empty, but the Federal Courts have long held that the unauthorized use of a famous singer's voice in a commercial constitutes a false endorsement and a violation of the singer's right of publicity," Lawrence Iser of the Santa Monica, California law firm Kinsella Weitzman Iser Kump & Aldisert said in a press release. "In light of Jackson Browne's lifelong commitment to Democratic ideals and political candidates, the misappropriation of Jackson Browne's endorsement is entirely reprehensible, and I have no doubt that a jury will agree."
This is the second time in a week a celebrity has chastised the McCain camp for allegedly illegally using his or her material. Mike Myers, earlier this week, insisted that the Arizona Republican take down a web ad that -- mocking Obama's celebrity -- used a "we're not worthy" clip from his movie Wayne's World.
Back in July, meanwhile, the Silicon Alley News reported that...